Africa

30-01-2007

Thanks Zoopro - guess I just wanted to share my wonderful African experience and the opinions and beliefs I developed as a result of it.
But I know now not to start a discussion!! LOL!

Sounds like you had an amazing experience...I don't think you can go to Africa and have it not change you.

We were fortunate enough to see a lion kill, lions mating, a tree-climbing lion at Lake Manyara and our own truck-chargers including elephants and rhinos!
I'll also never forget the night I woke up to hear a leopard roaring not too far away from my tent - my only thought was 'go back to sleep, go back to sleep!'

Rayles

30-01-2007

lol wow, sounds so kool, i want to do all that when i finish uni and after some yrs at the zoo, i am going to go to zimbawae to start and vollunteer in chipingalli wildlife rescue, then with them cheetah research in kenya, then if i get some good contacts in the zoo world some other research stuff, but i would also like to do the whole gorillas thing, i mean it costs thousands, but boy would i love that, and maybe i can find some short cuts with good contacts.

if u dnt mind me asking, how did u do it, just a safri, or with the zoo, reseach trip, and how much it cost you (private message if you prefer)

also dnt worry about anything said on here, i start a hell of alot of arguments here -cough with zoopro cough-, (i feel most the time he just picks on me) so dont worry, i think ya pretty kool, i mean AFRICA, u have been to the worlds ultimate bio park!!!!!!!!!!

31-01-2007

um, i think i said i would "argue" that they are not. i never said your wrong.
please don't be precious rayles. we have lost many a new forum member because of such issues before. the main bulk of us regulars enjoy a healthy disagreement and certainly don't take any of it to heart. hope you can too.


you appeared to imply that zoos should focus on endangered species over less endangered ones (using exotic lions vs wild dogs as an example) because breeding endangered species was what zoos are for. now i love zoos, and they certainly do some very important work with some species and captive breeding programs are asset to many of them (most of them native but more recently even australian-bred orangutans have been released into the wild). but many populations of zoo animals worldwide are not particuarly valuable to the species as an "insurance population" or for release. many animal species are terribly inbred, both regionally and sometimes globally. did you know less than 10 sumatran tigers founded the entire captive population. now there are hundreds of this subspecies in zoos, but genetically, its not anywhere near as valuable as it could be. taking animals to the other side of the world and putting them on display for the noisy public is a heavily compromised way to breed an endangered species. they can act as ambassadors and raise awareness, so they are valuable in this respect, but in my opinion the whole concept of an "ark" is greatly exaggerated and not entirely a true concept.

zoos origins are in entertainment and will always remain there due largely to the fact that part of what distinguishes a "zoo" from a "breeding centre" is that only one is definately open to the public. fortunatley zoos have also moved largely into the role of education and whilst i think they can improve, they are on the right track. preservation of most exotic species through CBP's, i'm afraid, comes a humble third in the list of priorities.

i can happily justify zoos existance, but i like to think i see them for what they are and in what circumstances.

02-02-2007

Some of us in this forum have been lucky enough to have travelled to other continents , and seen "exotic" animals in the wild .
Others of us havent ( yet ) been lucky enough to have done so .

From my own personal experience , I saw orangs being rehabilitated to go back in to the wild jungle in Borneo . It sure as heck beats zoos . But if all zoos close down and just leave the work to National parks and wildlife sanctuaries , we would lose a heck of a lot more animals alot faster .

For those who havent travelled to "exotic" places ( some of you might think of NZ as exotic for all I know ) the closest that they can appreciate wildlife is the zoo .
I can appreciate what Rayles has said about Africa , and his comments are as valid as the rest of us .
Often there is no easy answer to how do we go about conservation , and certainly there is no one answer that fits all species .

02-02-2007

hey nigel,

nobody has critcised rayles comments about africa or how wonderful animals are in the wild. in fact nobody has criticised rayles at all.

03-02-2007

I agree with you Patrick .
I wasnt trying to say that anyone has criticised Rayles , but as he appeared to be upset that he had started some sort of argument and was sorry that he did so .....

As you correctly said , nobody has criticised him . I was trying to point out to him that as each of us have had different experiences , there will be different opinions and ideas . All are valid on the forum . Like you ( and others ) I hope Rayles will stay and be a regular contributor to this forum .

Sorry if I had misled anyone with my earlier comments

03-02-2007

its cool nigel, i know what you mean.

i just get a little irritated that this stuff starts off in the first place.

addmittedly, i have a history of scaring away new forum members in under 10 words. but to be honest, i really don't take any of my comments back. instead, i just get annoyed that it always turns into such a big deal. this time was particuarly rediculous, all i said was this....

"actually i'de argue no. its not!"

and suddenly i'm accused by rayles of not respecting someone elses opinion and everyones got to pull together to do a major suck job to try and keep a new member on the forum. in actual fact i believe it can be construed just as easily the other way round.

anyhow its getting boring and thruth be that rayles was welcome to respond to my comments and has, at least so far, chosen not to.

Africa
07-02-2007

Well, haven't I gotten off onto the wrong foot?

First of all, I am a woman...so that's probably going to start an argument in itself!

And second of all, I did not really expect to get the in-depth arguments and detailed justifications that I did. Just wanted to share my experience and opinion, which developed from that experience.

Thirdly, I am on this forum to learn about zoos and what they are doing with various animals...being a major zoo tragic!

And Patrick, no, I did not reply to you as I am extremely busy at work and this is the first time I have been on this site since my last post and quite frankly, I'm over it. Let's just agree to disagree?

And Zoo_Boy, I did Africa the cheap way, which meant we were sleeping in tents with the wilds of Africa all around us (which was an experience in iteself) and travelling in a big overland truck with 17 other people. It cost my husband and I almost $4000 for the tour...but that was the cheapest part! The airflights cost more than the tour and then there was everything you have to buy etc etc. But, as I have been dragging my long-suffering husband to zoos across the country for many years...I just had to get to Africa and I did...and I had a ball and developed a new-found respect for wild animals and the environment in which they live.

Rayles