Sumatran rhino move. » Los Angeles Zoo

17-02-2007

I dont know of a rhino sanctuary in the US but the San Deigo wild animal park would have one of the largest rhino collections in the zoo world.

17-02-2007

sounds like suci should head to indonesia also. try her with the one male left. in the likely event it doesn't work the situation will still be no worse off than that of if she had stayed in the states.

17-02-2007

First of all, Suci won't be sexually active within the next 3/4 years at least. Torgamba's health is allready declining and i doubt he would last that long. Add the factor that it is unsure how the USA born rhino's will react to disease/musquito's/parasites in Indonesia and i would say there's no rush to sent her over.

If Andalas is reproducing with Ratu/Rosa and another male shows up, i would think about sending that male over to the USA other then risking sending Suci to Indonesia.

17-02-2007

I agree with Jwer here. I think Suci is safer staying in the USA at least for the present. Remember what happened at Sungai Dusun where all the captive Sumtran rhinos perished within a year....

I think she is too precious to be moved yet- she is 'safer' at Cincinnati as they must know more than anyone else now, how to care for this species. By the time she is sexually mature the position regarding a male for her may have changed anyway.

If Torgamba's health wasn't failing I'd suggest sending him to Cincinnati, but if he was fully fit he wouldn't need replacing with Andalas, and so wouldn't be available (if you can follow that...).

17-02-2007

To do what, exactly? Emi is allready pregnant and won't be breeding within the next 2 years or so, Suci won't be sexually active within 3/4 years and his health is failing because of old age, which is nothing Cincinatti can change?

17-02-2007

"Welcome Feddi"

17-02-2007

Yep Welcome Freddi, some input from London would be interesting,

18-02-2007

Thanks allot for this very interesting discussions .

Plesed to know there are some people out there passionate about the Sumatran Rhinoceros.

Thought about adding my Icelandic voice...

But having a massive problems posting my messsage so will probably give up...

Best Wishes from London

18-02-2007

Bless it´s working...

(Sorry about my spelling!)

I am very pleased Andalas is going back to Sumatra. I think it´s the only viable option in this breeding program at present time. It´s great he will get a change saving his species. He is still young though, only six in September.

I am very concerned about the risks involved.
I guess he will have some immunity from his mother against diseases he will possible face in his new home. Having been born and brought up in foreign Zoo´s will make him very vulnerable.

There have been so many sad stories from this breeding program over the years, but some good ones recently. We really need some good ones...

Trying to be optimistic as he is such a precious animal and I am sure he will be looked well after.

This interest is a bit off an Asperger one... but I am very curious to know if over the years there has been storaged some viable sperm from the many males that have been in this breeding program over the years?
I know Cincinnaty zoo has managed this with it´s only breeding male.
Althought the Sumatran rhinoceros is an induced ovulator and an AI will be very difficult, the staff at the Cincinnaty Zoo have done some really brilliant things over the years!

I think that the option of breeding the young female in Cinncinaty when she becomes mature with one of her first relatives should be a possibility. But I guess it would be very difficult for the Zoo to give such information out to the public...

Well thanks allot

Keeping my finger crossed..

BW Feddi

18-02-2007

freddi - i too would be interested if genetic material, be it sperm or whatever has been preserved of all the non-breeing animals that have died in, or still are in captivity. even more so i am interested to know whether there are any other obscure zoos i indonesia or malaysia that house this species.

i guess at the heart of the question as to whats best in this delicate scenario is this "why did cincinatti zoo succeed?"

i put it to you guys that it was a lot of good research (that i'm sure you'll all agree with me on) but also a good dose of luck.

luck that not only did they have a pair that defied the odds and actually SURVIVED captivity in a zoo but also that they had a pair that actually liked eachother!

for me - the situation is too delicate to be messing around with the problems associated with having the tiny captive population split on either side of the world. what i'm hoping is that the fact that precious andalas has moved to indonesia means that their will be a much greater focus on getting that cincinatti success and expertise into the centre there.

my advice would be to continue to test the waters with andalas. but be prepared to move suci there should andalas do well. there is no point moving emi and ipuh. they should continue to stay at the zoo in the US and pump out as many babies as they can.

there may not be any males for suci to breed with in indonesia at this stage, but there is a chance that will change. that chance does not exist in cincinatti.

in any case moving andalas we must all agree, is a vey positive move and i wish them the best chance of success.

Cincinatti Zoo
18-02-2007

I have heard that Cincinatti Zoo has been known as the sexiest zoo due to a good record for breeding of numerous animal species ....
Whether it is because of astute zookeeping , food/diet , or whatever .....
I sometimes wonder why a zoo like Wellington does an excellent job on breeding primates when its infrastructure is almost falling apart , and why Zoo Oregon and Springfield MO zoos have successes in breeding elephants ( as much as zoos are concerned )

Sumatran rhinos should do OK in KL Zoo Negara , Melaka Zoo or Taiping Zoo
assuming that they have the room . These would be the only zoos that will take on a serious attempt at breeding them . There is alsoi the Endau Rompin sanctuary that I have referred to before . Most other zoos in the country are a disgrace and needs to close .
I am not aware of any zoo or rhino sanctuary in Sumatra itself .

18-02-2007

nigel, the way kambas sumatran rhino breeding center we have been talking about, the one that andalas is being moved to, is on the island of sumatra.

from what i have read sumatran rhino have been kept at zoo melaka before, including a animal captured pregnant in the 80's that gave birth at the zoo. like the animals at sungai dusin - they have all prematurely died there.

taiping zoo got busted for purchasing gorillas they knew to be poached from the wild. hardly a zoo for conservation as far as i am concerned.

putting rhino in any zoo right now seems a little rediculous to me. in the long run should a good founder base be sourced and the captive population thrives at the centre and grows dramatically, we can expect to see sumatran rhino begin to pop up in zoos again. and those animals should go to the zoos that can best provide for them and that have financed the conservation effort at way kambas (though belonging to the indonesian government probably wont).

18-02-2007

I'm pretty sure the reason Concinnati succeeded with breeding Sumatran rhino was mainly due one factor- the YOUNG age of the female Emi. She was only about a year old on capture, unlike most of the others. So when Cincinnati obtained her from Los Angeles she was still in her prime. Time was on their side, even for the several pregnancies which resulted in miscariages. Cincinnati's own female Rapunzel was an older animal-they could do nothing with her as she was past breeding and she was later sent to Bronx New York Zoo as an exhibit only. She died about a year ago.

I'm not detracting from the expertise they have developed but if Emi had been a middle aged, or even older female, they could well have failed as did the other zoos in America and Port Lympne in UK- who all got older females. Port Lympne had two consecutive females(both died) which were probably too old to breed with their male Torgamba, he outlived both and was returned to Way Kambas, Sumatra. Sadly he hasn't bred there either.

18-02-2007

i'm hoping that the way kambas facility has been collecting sperm samples from him as often as possible. even if they can get just one successful birth from him it will be a major boost.

19-02-2007

I was told by the head keeper of the Sumartan rhinos at Port Lympne in 87 that the first female that arrived there had a bad leg injury that was from a poachers snare from some time before she was caught and was sent there away, I seem to remember being told she was an old animal, the female I saw was the second one to arrive. The plan was for them to get two pairs.

Love these guys. They had everything for their comfort, the rhino house was heated in cold weather and even the indoor mud pools was heated. They had a cold store room inside the house with heaps of tropical friut flown in for them 2 to 3 times a week, there must of been a truck load of friut in there.