New white cubs for mogo!!!! » Mogo Zoo

King cheetah
17-02-2007

What does everyone think of the king cheetah. Should Canberra be displaying this type of cheetah or should they concentrate on "normal" cheetahs. Is it any different to Mogo displaying and breeding white lions? Also for a long time Taronga had a white tiger on display. That enclosure could have been used to house a breeding pair of sumartran tigers. My opinion is that if an animal is being displayed to draw in the crowds, then it is contributing to help the zoo meet it's running costs. Private zoos like Mogo and Canberra, I believe need to have something a little different to attract people from the major zoos. I went to Canberra to see the King cheetah. Maybe other people would do the same thing.

17-02-2007

You are right boof, all zoos need draw cards as I have been told buy a number of zoo directors over the years and the smaller zoos dont get the funding as do some of our major state zoos, as i said before if a king cheetah or white lion can help get the interest of the public and are educated about these species when they visit the zoos its not a bad thing. Money is important to all zoos with smaller ones even more so.

19-02-2007

sure, no doubt having the only white lions in australia - a whole pride of them, is a big attaction for mogo. and there is an argument that if it attracts additional patrons to the zoo then there is an oportunity to spread the conservation message to more people.

and would like to point out that there are many, many more negative things that come before zoos displaying aberrant colour morphs ....

however, i do want to remind everyone just one last time that whilst white lions are a natural product, they are not naturally a successful one. the same goes for white tigers (being a king cheetah on the other hand, i suspect poses no major disadvantages as they whilst still rare, appear to have been a little more common in the wild compared with white lions and tigers). had people not captured white tigers and lions and brought them into captivity i have every inclination that the morph would have been likely to disappear completely in the wild or at best remain a very unual oddity that pops up once in a blue moon and dies soon after. remember the genes only really survive any legnth of time becuse regular coated indiviuals carry the genes with no physical effects and at no disadvantage.

whilst unlike white tigers white lions are a purebred subspecies, we are still duplicating a gene for our own benefit. the founder stock for white lions is pretty small and there is a fair bit of inbreeding going on to create these animals..

20-02-2007

i dislike it when zoos stray from the regional collection planning principles. although if mogo thinks that by having white lions they can become more economically viable good on them. but i wish they'd drop the conservation rhetoric and just come out and say that its to attract people

20-02-2007

although white lions do represent a good opportunity for Peurgoet to display its punative interest in conservation

20-02-2007

Yeah, nothing annoys me more then when a zoo like the one at Dubbo spends 2.5 million dollars to create a breeding facility for a rare animal like the greater one horned rhino. How dare they.

21-02-2007

Here here Boof I do agree how DARE WPZ try and help save an Endangered species like the Indian rhino, they also must know that most people in oz dont want to see these remarkable animals and join the world effort in trying to save this species, lets stick to the regional plan and just turn our backs on on such Endangerd animals.

21-02-2007

Sometimes, discussing these things is like pushing s#$@ up hill. It's a pointless excercise.

So let's just import a single pair of every endangered species there is, no matter how much it costs, or what the impact is to other well thought-out programs, shall we? After all, we have an infiniate amount of resources in the way of money and people to support these initiatives.

And you wonder why some zoos don't have the resources to manage what they have effectively, or to build wonderful new exhibits? But heaven knows, they may breed a single animal of one of those endanagered species, so it will all be worth it.

21-02-2007

I thought we were taking about 2 endangered species here not every species.

21-02-2007

I was trying to make the point, perhaps too subtly (or too sarcastically), that we can't import and effectively manage all endangered species, just because they are endangered, and in my opinion, two animals in a region as remote as ours, doesn't do much good. Would you follow the same logic if Australia Zoo imports 2 Sumatran rhino, and Adelaide Zoo imports 2 Bengal tigers, and Perth Zoo imports 2 Bonobos, etc. etc.? When do we decide that it might be a more sensible idea to work together to manage a viable population effectively?

21-02-2007

I got your point Zoopro, but my point was this is only the two species here white lions & Indian rhinos. Of coarse we know we have to draw the line somewhere with the number of species that our zoos keep and I for one am all for a regional collection plan, I just think our scope should be a little wider thats all, just one other point is long gone are the days of shipping in animals from all over the world by ship, as everyone is aware many animals are flown in from the other side of the world within 24 hours this makes it much easier for zoos world wide to work togeather in there breeding programs.

21-02-2007

not when your quarrentine laws are so tight mark! its not cheap to import animals by air and many specimens take years for the co-ordinator to source.

and lets be honest - which species would you guys phase out? i don't think there is a single phase-out species mentioned on this forum that doesn't achieve a chorus of "why can't we keep them?" from almost everyone (i know i'm guilty of this too..).

whats particuarly stupid in the mogo decision is its not even a species we don't manage - but its a group that are effectively shut-out from the breeding program because all the other zoos don't wish to purposely breed muatations.

personally, like everyone else, i adore indian rhino and i think they are a good choice for the region for many reasons. i have even argued that since dubbo already makes a huge contribution to the priority program for white rhino, then should they chose another species (or two as it may be) then that is fair enough. however on the otherhand zoopro makes a very good point.

whats better, to have a few well-coordinated regional programs or spread yourself thinly over numerous programs?

we all know the answer to that.

i also like indian rhinos
21-02-2007

i also love indian rhinos, but like zoo pro said, having a pair of them in australian zoos isnt going to save them. and its just dumb to think otherwise.
this isnt to take away from the fact that they are endangered, or spectacular, or have a good exhibit at WPZ. it doesnt change the fact that WPZ is the only place to see these spectacular beasts in the country.
but the Indian Rhino program has recquired a disproportionate ammount of resources which may compromise the viabilty of the TAG as a whole. therefore, I think that the importation of the Indian Rhino might just have been a little before its time. if the region, collectively, got black rhinos and white rhinos sorted out than it would be time for Indian Rhinos. not now, when were already facing the Black Rhino as being unsustainable.
would other people on this forum advocate increasing lemur species, given that Ruffed Lemurs are already in trouble from lack of breeding. why dont we import Mountain Tapirs, just because they are endangered? and who cares about the Malayans???
as much as we talk about sustainabilty and viabilty of our own regional collections, in my mind our zoos should not be compromising the management of international programs by 'borrowing' these animals to start programs here, when in America and Europe, Indian Rhino populations are still not out of the woods. certainly, you cannot tell me (maybe in Japan) that Kua couldnt have been sourced a more suitable mate in America or Europe? the most effective place for Kua would be in a zoo in either America or Europe.
and finally, we might have a pair of Indian Rhinos. so what? even if they do breed, we either send the offspring back OS or import more to create unrelated pairs. either way, its a slow way to build up numbers, and its certainly taking the long way aorund to establishing a viable population of this species.
in the future, lets just hope that...

WPZ aims to increase its holding capacity

at least 2-3 other regional zoos indicate holding potential

that the SSP and EEP both continue to breed surplus to recquirements, meaning our region might actually get some more rhinos

and that WPZ succesfully breeds this species

at the end of the day, managing any species in an international program and not regionally seems very wasteful of money

21-02-2007

i also think Taronga should consider phasing out African Lions and Sumatran Tigers for white lions and tigers. i cant see a problem with that...

21-02-2007

Glyn, before you say its so dumb to hold only A PAIR of Indian rhinos in this country why dont you bother to read Taronga zoos master plan were is says they want to hold TWO pairs in a few years and there is another zoo in Australia that also is interested in having them, so we could have at least three pairs here, so how about doing a little reserch first before you come out with kind of statement. maybe the only dumb thing here is that some people dont get their facts right.