New white cubs for mogo!!!! » Mogo Zoo

21-02-2007

that other zoo would be australia zoo.

hopefully they have given up on the rediculous idea of sumatran rhinos by now...

i am fully aware of the facts
22-02-2007

i know full well of the intentions of ZPB of NSW to hold 2 breeding pairs of Indian Rhinos. But given genetic theory, low holding capacity and the fact that ARAZPA regards a zoo program in the Australasian region as viable when an animal can be managed with a population +20 individuals, well, i think its dumb!!!

22-02-2007

gotta start somewhere. Or should all 20 come at once?

24-02-2007

im content to just sit and watch if this one works out, id like to see indian rhinos in more zoos, but in the last decade, no new large mammal species introduced to Australia has been established as a viable species, ie, bongo, malayan tapir.
the real success seems to come with species held within Australia in good numbers to start with.
and whilst i obviously dont reckon we could start a program with 20 of these animals, building up to this number (20) from a small founder population of less than 6 animals (which is a generous estimation given WPZ only intends to have 2 pairs) will only compound issues of inbreeding. this species will need a very high level of regional involvement, cooperation and money poured into it if its to persist, or, as people are suggesting, move to a mor secure status.
and another point, before any other zoos get involved, they will have to find the several million dollars to finance construction of an exhibit for a new species. the logical thing would be for most zoos to upgrade exhibits for animals they already have.

24-02-2007

Glyn, The other zoo that is interested in obtaining them has heaps of money for such projects, I would not be surprised if the got more than one pair.

24-02-2007

the best way for indian rhinos to be displayed is like whites, large savannah exhibits, western plains should have, and oz zoo might, as it said that its new land is for savannahs of africa, asia and north america!

24-02-2007

well, now those two particular species have good reasons why they have not become established - bongo becuse of importation changes that came into effect shortly after the initial import and malayan tapir because of health problems that put the program on hold.

still, i get your point, but its by no means restricted to just large mammals. as i often say virtually everything in our zoos are "unviable" long term without big imports.

what i find happens is that a small group tend to be imported, bred and then distributed amogst the other zoos. these reciveing zoos then tend to aquire a single unrelated individual from OS to breed back with the australian-bred stock. what this means is that eventually (depending on the species) most of the population is related to one another and with restrictions on how many animals can be held, breeding the population is halted. they join a long list of species requiring fresh blood imported and by the time a zoo gets around to it the population here is mostly aged, often a little inbred and can no longer reproduce anyway. the "breeding program" then effectively starts up again from scratch with a "fresh pair" and 20 years of keeping the species hasn't really got us very far (if the aim is to increase the species numbers).

then we start all over again.

of course there are exceptions to this (white rhino, sumatran tigers, orangutans to name just a few..) and valid reasons why this happens (even if you chose to discount lack of money as a valid), but in my view it tends to largely come back to that resurfacing issue of not enough space.

what i see happening in zoos at the moment is for many species, we are in this process of starting over and the question seems to be which species we choose to do that for.

sometimes i fear that some of the same mistakes are being made again. its okay to bring in a single pair and breed them (i suppose the thought is that you can then trade some of those offspring for unrealted animals and slowly build up more founder pairs), but you have to be prepared to dedicate spaces to those additional animals we breed or tarde for. if we halt breeding a pair of valuable animals simply becuse their is lack of space we will find ourselves in the same predicament again in a decades time.

at the moment its all a bit difficult as not all zoos can commit to the same species and even if they do not necessarily at the same time! so while we are slowly phasing out-species to make space we are slowly phasing others in! (though admittedly maybe not as many but their is a bigger expectation on how we house those animals) and each zoo is often phasing in a different species from one another..

we are looking at a big mass extinction of many of our zoo animals in this country. but maybe thats what needs to happen? we will then end up with a much larger population of a smaller collection and then we can slowly start agreeing to import in bulk new (or old) species coperatively and at the same time with plenty of available space for expansion...

24-02-2007

If our Major zoos could work out a special deal to import a few hoofed species like Bongo from a few major overseas zoos (which are quarantine stations away) and then Quarantine them again in Maybe New Zealand or on the Cocos (keeling islands) and then put them into our own Major zoos which are also quarantine stations it could be a way forward with three levels of Quarantine. maybe our zoos could do a joint import of a number of animals at once of the same species.

24-02-2007

Pat
your theory on creating programs seem to me to be quite sound. The sumatran tiger, though we have a large population in the region is a good example. All the animals are either descendants, or mated to descendants, of just two pairs. These two pairs are so interrelated that they couldn't be seperated.
The white rhino I feel is an excellent example of how it should be done. We have a large founder population, with, I presume, little relatedness between them. (That depends on their past) There are at least five male bloodlines and about 16 females lines. All the males have bred and we are just waiting on about half the females. Still this provides a good base for a sustainable po[ulation, so long as spaces can be found for all the young, both this generation and the future ones.Would anyone know if there is anything stopping young born here from being exported overseas?

25-02-2007

It comes down to Money in the end as many things seem to do, Monarto and (I think) WPZ were going to be breeding centres for the city zoos at first but I guess they just needed the extra cash for running those places.

26-02-2007

and if they are not open to the public , they can kiss goodbye to some of the potential funding .

central breeding facilty
26-02-2007

you might find this plan would meet opposition from tax-payers too. i mean,tax payers in WA might get a little pissed about subsidising their STATE ZOO, which in turn is part of a co-op starting a zoo in NSW, or QLD, etc.
In the US, The Wilds development caused similar problems.

on the other hand
26-02-2007

on the other hand (hypothetical) , anyone willing and able to start their own private zoo, like MOGO, could focus on category 2 species, trying to boost the regional population levels of different species.
A possible species list might include Sumatran Tigers3, Snow Leopards4, Golden Cats4, Fishing Cats4...
Mandrills5, Silvery Gibbon4, GL Tamarin2, Emporer Tamarin2, WR Lemur2...
Binturong4, Red Panda2, Maned Wolf4, Dhole4, Fennec Fox4, Sun Bear3...
Black Rhinoceros3, Indian Rhinoceros3 (to make evryone happy ), Brazillian Tapir4...

26-02-2007

[quote=patrick;9317]well, now those two particular species have good reasons why they have not become established - bongo becuse of importation changes that came into effect shortly after the initial import and malayan tapir because of health problems that put the program on hold.

yep, and when either species were imported to try and build up a population from scratch no one could forsee either issues. the Bongo program had grand population projections of up to 35 animals in the region.
by the same token, we do not know if the Indian Rhino will have problems here in the Australian envionment (unlikely i know), but more worryingly, biosecurity/import laws may be tightened. potentially leaving Dora, Kua and whatever other rhinos are imported before then effectively stranded.

on another note, Australia Zoo having lots of money to throw at starting a breeding program is no guarantee that they wil automatically get as many rhino as they want, so i wasnt making a dumb comment.
the importation of this animal will need to be a carefully staggered approach. hopefully, Indian Rhino will reach viable levels one day, but i hope not at the expense of Black Rhino.

07-11-2007

White lion program a roaring success - National - smh.com.au

5 new male white cubs for mogo, lets not debate it cause we all have before, and just say they are cute!