Hello, Can somebody comment on that zoo? Especially on tiger enclosures. I heard that they are unusually naturalistic and modeled after actual tiger reserves. Anybody has photos? I failed to locate any revelant on Google.
There are lots if you search 'IOW zoo' or 'Isle of Wight zoo' on Flickr.com, here are two of the best of some of the new tiger exhibits: I think this is the phase I exhibit now with the vegetation maturing staff swimming in the phase II exhibit after filling the newly-completed pool The zoo was run for several decades by Jack Corney, more of an 'old school' zoo proprieter, I believe since he passed away it has been run sensitively, and ethically, by his daughter. In my opinion it is fast becoming once of the best zoos in the UK. They have a no-breed policy for most of their animals apart from the few species of lemurs participating in breeding programmes. It's a real indicator of how times have changed - 15 years ago, Howletts had the largest tiger collection in the UK, and were breeding them. Now the IOW zoo has the most tigers, and all are housed in retirement. I have not been to the zoo since 1992, it is now about four times the size it was then. It wasn't a good zoo at that time, although the owner had improved it from the 'slum zoo of Britain' when he bought it in the late 1970s. They may one of the few collections in the UK where you can still see leopard cats. Some of the open-topped lemur enclosures are also excellent. the website is: Isle of Wight Zoo :: Home Page I'm pretty sure the 'future developments' section is now out of date and they are fundraising for or building at least phase 3 of the tiger sanctuary reserves now.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this site. But when one argues for a no-breeding policy ... it appears to me you are acceptant and fatalistic about the plight of endangered species. The example of the "most tigers" at Isle of Wight Zoo makes me rather sad. Figures - to my mind - do not matter it is matter that matters! I suppose we are all aware of the plight of tigers in this day and age. I assume, johnstoni, that you are talking of "mixed" tigers or Bengals in retirement? But if they are truly pure-bred Bengals f.i. it would take on another meaning all together .... The Bengal tiger has gone from an (over-)estimated 3,500 - 4,000 individuals to a mere 1,400 in the last decade in India. Lacklustre conservation policy, a watering down of Project Tiger ethics, ignorance of urgent advice by India's very own tiger monitoring ecologists and we were there! Rife poaching and ever further infringement on prime tiger reserves like Ranthambore and Sariska have put paid to several previous breeding populations. The situation is so dire that not just Indian zoos should reinstate a breeding programme of pure-bred Bengals, but also zoos out of range. So, your account just makes me a little sad ... (and the tiger was just an example (lol)). If you must point to good small zoos with a conservation ethic and educational drive take to Linton or Jersey Zoos. They have a special knack at making the non MEGA fauna mighty interesting and worth conserving. Now that is what I call a good zoo. I rest my case (and hope you might yet agree on this one (lol)) I am cool though!
I believe the role of zoos is not just for breeding. To quote some sentences from zoo's own website: - # We believe that the educational experience of our visitors can be enhanced by seeing animals in environments that replicate their natural habitat. # We aim to promote awareness of the threats that tigers and other endangered animals face in the wild and assist in the conservation of these species. # We hope that these new enclosures will encourage our visitors to take an active role in tiger conservation by donating money to Kanha National Park. If the tigers are of questionable purity then, by my reckoning, the above is a highly positive way for them to spend their 'retirement'. Another worry is that if they did breed then who would keep the off spring? Even a large UK zoo such as Chester are now having to share a single enclosure between Bengal and Sumatran. I also worry about the long term breeding of tigers. After many generations will they become too domesticated to be returned to the wild ? Tigers are such a charismatic species but they do raise many interesting challenges (and debates) !
If their purity is in question isn't it better they are kept in one place leaving other zoos with enclosures that can house pure Bengal or Sumatran tigers.
All the Tigers at the Isle of Wight Zoo are 'mixed race'. I have heard that while the new 'Indian- themed' tiger enclosures are excellent, a number of theTigers still live in very cramped quarters. With up to twenty or more tigers, not all can use the enclosures at the same time. Apart from these mixed-race Tigers, some other big cats, and the various Lemurs, there isn't a lot else to see at the IOW Zoo.
My friend, I feel like you want things both ways....you put a lot of value in the preservation of pure-subspecific animals, yet you find it sad that a collection holding generic 'Bengal' tigers and genetically over-represented Amur tigers should have a no-breed policy. It is progressive collections like the IOW zoo that are facilitating the very process which you champion...allowing more collections to focus on pure subspecies and genetically-important stock. A collection like this may appear to be all the scraps that the good zoos don't need, but they perform as important a role for the very breeding programmes they do not participate in. You see my point? I personally think that if India wipes out its tigers, there is nothing wrong with the huge captive population of generic bengals being tapped into should India want to attempt to repopulate their reserves. However, if you disagree with this then surely you should be absolutely in favour of more collections ceasing breeding of, and using 'spent' zoo stock to educate and raise money for in situ projects, just as the big, charitable status zoos do with endangered EEP species. My point about the 'most tigers' was not that this is impressive, just an indicator of how we have progressed in the UK. Fifteen years ago, Aspinall was popping out generic Indian tigers and Amurs not connected to any coordinated breeding programme. While his early efforts are to be applauded, the fact that the largest UK tiger group is a sanctuary for 'retired' animals, shows that most of the UK tiger holdings are now able to focus on genetically valuable, pure subspecies, all carefully managed througth EEPs and ESBs. I think we agree that this is the right way forward? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I have answers, it's a pleasure to stretch out views on this forum I have had for a while but have never been in the right company to have them challenged, I appreciate this kind of debate.
This is true, but it is still very much a hangover from the days of Jack Corney. Since the daughter took over, the enclosures have continuously been replaced with much larger habitats rich in different substrates and vegetation. As a fairly small (though expanding rapidly) site, they made a wise choice to try and do the best they could for the existing animals, rather than go down the route of acquiring something new, marketing it around a new exhibit, and developing that way. The IOW should be judged by the development and management changes under the current director. From the site, it is obvious that, although some animals are still awaiting more spacious quarters, the environmental enrichment programme is fantastic.
I must add, though, that I don't always think a 'no breed' policy is right when it happens. The Monkey Sanctuary in Looe, Cornwall, has one of only thre groups of Woolly monkeys in the UK (they have 7.1, twycross 9.2, and monkey world has seven from Apenheul origin and three 'rescued' animals). They introduced a no-breeding policy several years ago. I know a lot of the european population aren't pure, but in the absence any others, it seems a shame to slowly run this group down to nothing. Accidents do happen, and a baby was born a couple of years into the policy. The effect of an infant on the group was extremely positive, another argument against preventing primates from breeding at all. Considering this move was made on ethical grounds, it seems ironic to displace the multi-generational composition of a socially robust primate group in the name of ethics. I would say this argument is especially important in the UK chimpanzee population right now. Another example of a 'happy accident' despite birth control, was the last chimpanzee baby at Colchester zoo. I think that we have space in our UK collecitons to slowly reduce the sizes of some non-subspecific primate groups without halting breeding altogether, just ensuring a few less are born with each generation, while increasing space for EEP priority species. Another interesting collection I am trying to find out more about, also on the Isle of Wight, is 'Monkey Haven', which I believe will take in most of the BIAZA surplus males of Eastern colobus subspecies, Javan brown langurs etc, forming bachelor groups and creating greater space in the collections they come from. Again, not a zoo I expect to see much breeding from, but a much-needed project that I feel contributes as much to the EEP for some species as the zoos breeding them do.
johnstoni, I do not want it both ways ... (lol)! Besides my point is not a breed and breed policy. I just think we should meet the challenges of the 21st century head on and make it our task to enact successful tiger reintroductions from captive sources. If we do not try and try to accomplish something deemed impossible we might as well stop living our lives ... Just your account and description on IoW Zoo was not conclusive on the nature of the tigers exhibitted. I glean from your comments that all are generic or hybrid tigers from an age when an indiscriminate breed policy was in place. So, yes in that respect IoW Zoo performs a function. Also their commitment to financial support of Kanha Tiger Reserve in India thru its generic tiger collection appeal is commendable. However, I am just a little concerned that we may loose the Indian or Bengal tiger completely as a pure subspecies if we do not reinstate a breeding programme for them. They would serve as a safeguard population against extinction, having massive educational conservation story appeal and ... provide for a possible source population from which eventual re-releases to the wild could be contemplated. I am of the conviction that this is an endeavour that is possible to accomplish successfully - yet no-one dares to try it on! I guess first and foremost authorities to take this up would be the Wildlife Institute of India and the Central Zoo Authority, India and should take the lead in this. Yet I would wish an offshoot of a pure-bred Bengal tiger programme would be established in one of the regions overseas. Would it not be a sound idea that in this day and age some safari parks, open range zoos and conventional zoos under direction of EAZA would invest resources into setting up breeding groups of pure-bred Bengal tigers for this exact purpose. Where I agree with you is that we need to have the white tigers' syndrome and generic tigers phased out of the zoos targetted for tiger EEP's as they take up valuable space.
Sure, I see how that wasn't explained in the thread earlier, but in pasting the info for the other member, I included the zoo website, and with yr knowledge of the almost universally generic nature of the bengal tiger population in europe, I wouldn't have imagined you'd think those recreations of Indian National Parks were for pure-bred bengals? I certainly wouldn't be championing a no-breed policy if they were. The zoo itself did not acquire such a large number of tigers through breeding, although some did take place. Many came from other european collections as it continued to specialise in big cats. It's not just that they are doing a good job phasing out tigers that we might not want, it's that they are using individuals usually cast aside by the zoo community as worthless in conservation terms, and telling the story of the plight of the indian tiger beautifully and effectively. There are not huge numbers of zoos supporting Indian tigers, partly becuase they can't link their own tigers to in situ projects in India, having phased out their generic bengals in favour of Amurs or Sumatrans. There are exceptions, but this tends to be the case. It is this disproportionate lack of conservation efforts by UK zoos no longer holding bengals that is precisely why you should be very interested in the IOW zoo. In situ - it's really up to India though, isn't it? The bodies and organisations fighting for tiger survival in India certainly deserve our support, but maybe it has to get worse before it gets better. As a sovereign nation, we can't force the government to put tigers before people, or deal with both equally, if there is not the current inclination to do so. We can only support those working within conservation bodies there. What I agree with you on is that some kind of initiative not dissimilar to ZSL (and maybe zurich) acting as catalysts to bring in new founder Asiatic lions to europe at the end of the 1980s, is needed, and I wonder what in your opinion would be the barriers to such a move occurring? If it has been done with lions, why not with pure Indian tigers?
johnstoni, I can see where we are going in Europe on Bengal tigers and it is not a pretty sight! F.i. the John Aspinall Foundation used to be big on Bengal tigers, but I think they have since been scaled back in terms of using enclosure space and the breeding programme has been stopped out of .. sheer desinterest. Are you suggesting that most of JAF current stock are hybrids or generics? Anyhows, if the IoW Zoo's approach can put Bengal tigers back on our conservation (breeding) agenda that is mighty fine! Interesting you should bring up the comparison with Indian lions stats at the start of the 1990's. Crisis time and time to act and see where the caretaker population of Indian lions has brought us now (31.45.3)! The current programme now requires new pure-bred bloodlines from India. I assume that pretty soonish the Species Coordinator will put in a request to the Sakkarbaug Zoo in Junagadh, Gujrat, India. The timing might also suit to intensify the EEP involvement with India's ex-situ programme and in situ conservation programmes both at Gir and Kalkar Puno. Sorry, I just was veering off track here a bit ... I fully agree that it might be worthwhile to investigate the options for a re-instatement of the Bengal tiger breeding programme using direct imports of pure-bred Bengal tigers from Indian zoos. I will have to study the Indian zoo stats for that to be able to make a better assessment of our chances of acquiring stock and starting some kind of coop breeding and conservation project. I sincerely hope that tiger management in Europe will become more amenable to the idea that whilst we should not provide space for Bengal tigers at the expense of Sumatrans or Amur subspecies, we should explore the possibility of providing additional carnivore spaces to a third tiger subspecies in crisis mode. The third spot is currently occupied by IndoChinese tigers and white tigers (I think this idea is gruesome if we wish to put conservation value on endangered taxa while some EAZA zoos are determined to exhibit and/or breed a colour mutation only and present that as a conservation .... measure! Re: support for in-situ conservation to India. I agree with you we should first and foremost support the responsible field ecologists and other field team staff members conducting tiger research and conservation operations in India. In so doing we can better influence government policy on the matter. Direct political influence by foreign zoos in India is perhaps less of an option. But I think it is political in the sense that our leaders or even ambassadors can express their deepest concern at the crisis befalling India's wildlife and offering their support to in situ conservation and thereby provide an impetus for the Indian government to act more decisively and effectively to the current challenges to tiger conservation. Anyhow, will continue to discussion and see where it leads us. I will certainly get back to you on the India captive Bengal tiger thingy for you as well as the latest stats in wild tiger populations in protected areas and those just beyond.
Well, thanks for info! "IOW" - I would never think of such keyword. Although I remember India a bit different - but size of pool is wonderful.
The IOW Zoo has certainly seen a major change around in recent years. At one time it was dubbed 'Britain's Worst Zoo' though that's an epithet attributed by the press equally to various places over time. Since Charlotte Corney took over it has experienced a major seachange and they have made a lot of improvements, for the tigers in particular. To add a historical note; one pair of their(generic)tigers did in the past produce the 'record' number of cubs for any captive tigers, something like 29 cubs, some of which are still at the zoo. Other tigers have joined from e.g. Longleat, including specimens of both White & 'Tabby' Tiger, and more recently one was also 'rescued' I think from somewhere in America. As they are not purebred, a non-breeding policy is essential, but they are wisely focusing on the educational and fundraising possibilities they offer, instead. Apart from the Tigers and lemurs, this is still only a small collection, but one vwhich has improved greatly under the current management.
1. JAF has no purebred Indian tigers. When they started breeding tigers in the 1950/60's there were no studbooks or recognition of the need to retain racial purity. Some of their founder animals were mixed race. I believe their policy now is to phase out the impure Indian tigers(as they died off) in favour of the known- pure Siberians, and also Sumatrans( recently aquired by Howletts) too. 2. Am I still right in believing no pure Indian tigers exist in captivity outside of India? I have not seen a pure Indian tiger(apart from in India...) in a zoo for near on thirty years I think. The last ones I saw were probably the white ones(plus a normal) at Bristol Zoo in the 1970's. 3. I'd be interested to hear too if there was any plan to resurrect the keeping and breeding of Indian tigers in Europe...
1. Looe Monkey Sanctuary- it does seem sad to see this Woolly Monkey group stagnate- when it was set-up by Leonard Williams it was considered a ground-breaking way of keeping these monkeys and the first successful captive breeding group.. Is the intention now to disband the group altogether as they die off? 2. I agree, in all primates even a single infant present gives cohesion to the group and leads to more interest and activity among the group members, in turn adding greater interest for the public. Incidentally, wasn't the latest 'accidental' Colchester chimp baby a brown 'throwback' as its parents came from Twyross? In a similar vein, I don't understand why Dudley Zoo keep a group of non-breeding female chimps(they were originally London's breeding group) but since the single old male 'Pepe' died several years ago, there have been no males. I wonder if the intention is to balance up the group sex-wise only after the move to another enclosure, or is it due to the requirement/recommendation to breed only known the known pure West African chimpanzees? (You could apply this question for other groups of chimps too...) 3. IOW Monkey Sanctuary. I know they already have Siamangs. I believe the intention is much as you describe- and at least some of these surplus males will come from Twycross. It is due to open this summer.
Oh, that might explain a few things. That's a lot of tiger cubs. When I last saw the place they had that one breeding pair, the owners would go into the den and bring the young cubs out to meet the public with the mother shut outside for a short while. They were doing the same with some ruffed lemurs, although these I think were being hand-reared. They had just acquired their first two 'siberian' tigers, these were probably only just weaned and were in small cages I assume waiting for a larger enclosure to be completed. Corney was on good terms with the chipperfields and therefore often had animals from the english safari parks run by them for handrearing. Certainly he recieved lion cubs and black bear cubs at various points. I'm not sure whether this was done as a favour or as a way for a very small zoo to increase it's 'attractions' during tourist season.
I think most of the tigers and other cats not bred by themselves would have come from Chipperfields. Not long before his death, Corney supposedly mounted an 'expedition' to Sumatra to obtain some pure Sumatran tigers- quite how wasn't mentioned. I don't know if he ever went but they certainly don't have Sumatran tigers.
Looe Monkey Sanctuary have been slowly changing their focus to capuchins ever since they discovered they could not release the remaining woolly monkey family back into the wild. They now have brown, hybrid and weeper capuchins, and these outnumber the woollys already. So over the next few years its likely they will continue as they are, only with capuchins. I think the Woolly group have not had any new blood for decades, possibly this is why the gender bias towards males is so great now (I don't think a female has been born for years, and the only female left is the mother of half the group). I wonder why Twycross has the same gender bias. Do you know the genetic purity of the Monkey World group(s)? Where did you find out about IOW Monkey Haven? I can't find anything about it at all.
