Twycross Zoo elephants » Twycross Zoo

20-08-2007

That implies that if they do breed from them again at Twycross, the young of both sexes would have to leave as they get bigger. So effectively, the enclosure isn't suitable for more than what they have already, plus small calves. I imagine the idea may be to AI one female at a time so as to stagger births so that there is usually a baby for visitors to see, yet keeping the number low?

20-08-2007

They should be trying to breed as many babies as possible for other zoos breeding programs and since they are endangered as well, not just to have a babies on show for the public, I agree with you Grant keeping number low?, A bit silly I feel

20-08-2007

That is only a guess, I could be wrong about that but I know Twycross Zoo well and have always felt they are more concerned with display than breeding. For example, they have two groups of Gorillas, but in forty + years have only bred five.....

I think the historical aspect is important here too. Twycross Zoo was started by two ladies who had run a petshop together. From a few monkeys, it gradually grew into a very large Primate collection and many other species were added too. But even now their buildings are generally on a small scale and the elephant enclosure is by far the largest major building project they've ever undertaken.

20-08-2007

Maybe its time they had a rethink on the way they are heading

20-08-2007

Actually, I have been told that the keepers were having problems with Karishma - she was not obeying, getting agressive ect. That is not uncommon in captive born elephants who are trained "hands-on" with bullhooks ect. The bull Abu from Vienna Zoo was not even 4 years old when he killed a keeper... while female Hansa in Woodland Park Zoo/USA started attacking keepers when she was 2! It is a shame that the Twycross Zoo sent Karishma away instead of changing the management system to protected contact.

Sending her away was against the EEP guidelines and keeping all these breeding age females permanently without a bull too, but since the elephants are owned by the Twycross Zoo, the EEP can`t do anything against it. They could kick them out of the EEP and the EAZA, but such drastic actions are very, very rare.

20-08-2007

Yes that's part of the problem. Twycross are in effect free to continue managing their elephants in whatever way they choose. The two cows being sent to Chester for mating was probably a one -off (similarly they once sent two non-breeding gorillas away on breeding loan but didn't repeat that either)

I wonder what will happen if any of their other elephants become 'difficult' like Karishma ... Presumably Whipsnade have the facilities (protected contact?) to control her behaviour.

20-08-2007

While a certain level of autonomy is essential to avoid the pitfalls of the AZA-accredited zoos in the US being punished for sending elderly elephants to sanctuaries, I would definitely agree with your point that the zoo is 'sitting' on a group of breeding age. It is telling that the animals have remained at Twycross for so long only for a 'boisterous' eight year-old calf to be removed from the group. True, even very young animals can kill, but I think the zoo runs value-added 'experience days' (correct me if I'm wrong here), where members of the public have quite close interaction with the elephants, and in this context the real reason for sending Karishma away may be clearer.
If the policy is to maintain a tractable, performing group of cow elephants, then certainly I can't see them having any plans to place any animals on breeding loan unless, like Karishma, they cease to earn their keep, so to speak.

20-08-2007

Grantsmb, I think Whipsnade can manage female elephants in protected contact but from what I have been told they are working with Karishma in direct contact. I guess the seperation from her family and the integration into a new group where she has no support from her mother but is the lowest ranking female helped bringing her "under control" again... at least for now.

20-08-2007

......... and I would expect to hear that she is pregnant in the not too distant future. Motherhood may calm her down too.

21-08-2007

I see a lot of concern by all of us regarding the current no breeding situation for the Twycross elephants.

Yes, I do think it is unsatisfactory and yes we all wish for better management of the herd. The danger is that if Tonzi and Minbu are not bred soon and not twice, but thrice etcetera .......... their reproductive tracts may shut down completely. Secondly, AI is technically difficult, time and resource consuming and relatively expensive with no guarantee of quick success. On average only 30-40% of attempts are successful (and a bull is far more able to adequately judge the exact dates of receptiveness of a cow than AI could ever attempt to discover by regular hormone testing).

Some of us have hinted at a disjunct relationship to the EEP with Twycross owning their elephants. The way I understand the working of an EEP however is that zoos adhere to the recommendations put forward by the EEP Coordinator. If zoos are not willing to do so, they run the real risk of being taking off the EEP for operating in contravention of EEP rules. Twycross is certainly running the gauntlet on this. The case of Karishma is a pointer and I wonder whether advice had been sought from the EEP Coordinator prior to her being moved to Whipsnade (as official policy would be to send a matriarchal lineage - in this case both Minbu and Karishma).

However, I would like to wait and see at this moment what James Barber will brief us on the Twycross' future plans with the elephants shortly.

21-08-2007

I would have to add that Twycross have been similarly lax in ensuring their Gorillas breed regularly too. They have five adult females, but have had only five births- to three of those females- in forty years or more keeping the species. In the older group no breeding occurred for many years because the male lost interest in the females.. In the younger group, one female, Asante has never been bred from, having grown up with the male from an early age, forming a platonic relationship with him(he died earlier this year). Some years ago both she and her non-breeding mother Eva, were loaned out for breeding- the attempt failed- Asante failed to breed (not really being given enough time to adapt) while the mother Eva became pregnant but lost the baby after returning to Twycross. This has never been repeated and neither have bred since. Eva is a wildcaught animal and Asante her only daughter, so both would be priority animals for breeding.

I mention all this as I feel there are parallels here with the Elephants. If the EEP have recommended any moves for those non-breeding Gorillas, it seems Twycross have ignored them. Yet they still say they have to ask the Gorilla EEP for permission in order to acquire(or exchange) animals. I think perhaps the EEP just haven't taken any issue with this situation...

Breeding these elephants
23-08-2007

[QUOTE

However, I would like to wait and see at this moment what James Barber will brief us on the Twycross' future plans with the elephants shortly.[/quote]

Are we expecting some news here

23-08-2007

Are we expecting some news here [/quote]

You won't get any!!!!

25-08-2007

grantsmb,

This is what I am waiting for.

James,

Can you tell us more now on the elephants at Twycross and the relationship with the EEP (You may have read our concerns there and the regulations zoos within EEP's are under)???

Cheers,

Jelle

25-08-2007

Yes, I can see you're waiting for some further information on this from James Barber. However, I'm a bit doubtful that he'll be able to give us the Zoo's perspective on all of this, but I could of course be wrong there.