Twycross Zoo elephants » Twycross Zoo

31-08-2007

It seems to me that the breeding problems in Twycross regarding elephants and gorillas are caused through refusal to exchange individual animals which are "VIP" personalities - usually elephants and gorillas are such species where the visitors and zoo staff alike care about which individuals live at the zoo, unlike monkeys or antilopes... Therefore no problem exchanging animals to opimize breeding - while many zoos in the past and Twycross maybe until today refused to send individual elephants or gorillas to another zoo for breeding because they wanted to keep exactly THIS animal, even if this means no breeding will occur.

31-08-2007

twycross did breed the very rarely seen spotted cuscus and the dorias tree kangaroo and the have bred malayan tapir in the past, this animal was partially raised by a great dane!

31-08-2007

You're exactly right in this, at least with the Gorillas. In the past the apes at Twycross were like the owners' 'children' and that was the root of the problem. There was great reluctance to send animals elsewhere and 'risk' them. When two gorillas were eventually sent to Bristol to try and breed them, they were understandably very stressed to start with and the Twycross director soon wanted her 'babies' back. Keepers had to argue with her to allow them to stay for longer in orddr to settle down. One, Eva, did eventually become pregnant and was returned to Twycross, where she gave birth a month prematurely. The baby died. Eva has never been pregnant since though last year they shifted her into the other younger group for a few months in an attempt to breed her again, but that didn't work either. Plans to similarly move the other female 'Biddy' into the younger group were not followed through. Eva's(only) daughter' Asante' is now 22 years old and has NEVER even become pregnant.

I think the Elephants are another issue altogether. They represent the more 'modern' Twycross, which I think is is under new management nowadays. In this case it could be the expense of it that prevents them sending the animals elsewhere again for breeding. But playing around with AI is unlikely to achieve the desired result, I feel.

31-08-2007

Yes, a number of the earlier primate babies and probably other animals were handreared alongside dogs in the house at Twycross. Later they built an 'Ape nursery' at the back where handreared babies were on display during the daytime.

They had a very good reputation for successful handrearing. Edinburgh sent them their only Gorilla baby(Sekondi) which was rejected at birth- so it could be handraised in the Twycross nursery 'along with other baby primates for company'. In fact he spent most of his very early life alone as they had no similar aged companions at the time....

01-09-2007

Ah, so that WAS a Malayan Tapir, I remember reading about it but wasn't sure which species the tapir baby was. A case in point though, reminds me of seeing lady Fisher at Kilverstone walking round with a pramful of baby monkeys! So their record may be better than I thought, in a way, but I still don't think keeping a group of rare animals with one maybe two (often hand-reared) offspring occurring before they die out really counts as success. However, maybe its better for an unsuccessful group to die out rather than constantly being replaced, as is the way with the Malayan Tapirs recently.

The elephants clearly aren't being used for breeding as they are obviously very tractable at the moment and a pregnancy/ or trip to chester or whipsnade would certainly disrupt that routine. I guess we can hope the others become 'boisterous' enough to warrant banishing off to other collections like Karishma has.

01-09-2007

The elephants clearly aren't being used for breeding as they are obviously very tractable at the moment and a pregnancy/ or trip to chester or whipsnade would certainly disrupt that routine. I guess we can hope the others become 'boisterous' enough to warrant banishing off to other collections like Karishma has.[/quote]

Maybe the other UK zoos which are breeding Asain elephants should put some pressure on Twycross zoo to "loan" the four breeding age females out to other zoos breeding programs but are still owned by the Twycross zoo, even if they monitor when the females would be readly for breeding they could send one or two out at a time to the other places and still have a couple "on show" it just seems such a damm waste of breeding age females, Woburn, Chester and Whipsnade could be a good choice for them as they could choose which male they wanted to use.

01-09-2007

Hello.
There is a picture of the baby malayan tapir in the Twycross Zoo book that I have a copy of, 'Chimps with Everything'. It's called Peg, but is photographed with a Boston Terrier in the book. It was way back in the 70's though by the looks of things. Their new Malayan pairing have been seen mating so fingers crossed.

On a recent trip to the zoo on an enrichment day mini conference thing with work, we spoke to the elephant keepers, and I think one said that Tonzi is currently being trained to stand on steps etc for AI, which I think he said will take place around October time. However that might not necessarily be successful, as AI often isn't, but at least this is a less stressful measure, rather than shipping the elephants off somewhere, and at least they are attempting to do something with the elephants. The website now states that 'we have four female Asian elephants who are managed hands on and who are being trained for AI'. Anyway, thats all I have to say about the elephants.

Also, Twycross have just had a female chimpanzee born in early August to a brown chimpanzee mother (Mwekundu), and a black father (Benjie). The baby is called Tuli.

01-09-2007

Mark- Yes, I had thought similar, that they could send a 'pair' away for mating, keeping the other two on exhibit, then later the 2nd pair etc. That way- hopefully- there would also be two calves born at a similar time- good for the elephants and visitors alike. I think any pressure to do this would have to come from the EEP though- I think other zoos wouldn't publicly make an issue of this, whatever they think privately..

Hadley- and I think your scenario is accurate too- I also hope these females eventually become difficult and have to be sent away permanently like Karishma was- the only thing is, they should really go TOGETHER as a group, not being split up. This is a very peculiar situation really. The crux is that Twycross should really only house older, non-breeding elephants...

You'll see from my previous comments about Twycross's past history and management, particularly the Gorillas, that I am not too impressed. (I was once told they don't want to produce too many gorilla babies as there is a problem finding homes for the males). But I think its a bad situation where animals remain unbred for so long. The elephants represent an up to date version of this attitude.

01-09-2007

See Skoop102's post for an update on the Elephant situation. I still don't think its a satisfactory solution though....

01-09-2007

Regarding the gorillas, many of their gorillas who never bred or bred only are/were highly important for the european population due to their genetics... the surplus males problem is a very bad excuse for not breeding genetically important animals. Sekondi who died recently has only 2 offspring, and he is as good as wildborn because his wild-born parents have no other offspring. Asante, also genetically important, has never bred yet... because Sekondi was interested in her. She should have been moved to another zoo long ago!!!

01-09-2007

Yassa, I agree 100%

Their adult gorillas are as follows;
Male. Joe w/c Has never bred/never will.
Female Bongo. w/c Has never bred/never will.
Female Eva w/c One offspring(Asante). Has not bred again.
Female Biddy. w/c. two offspring (Mambie and Ozala). Has not bred since Ozala.
Female Asante.(Mamfe x Eva). 22 years Has NEVER bred.
Female Ozala.(Mamfe x Biddy). Bred twice/breeding.
Male SAMSam. From Edinburgh. Father of Sekondi. Difficult to breed from.

Joe and Bongo are 'no hopers'
Eva, Biddy and Asante should all be bred from.
SamSam is an unlikely partner and may not breed again.

Asante's problem was she grew up with Sekondi who was younger than her anyway- hence never any mating. (Her one visit to Bristol was shortlived and unsuccessful- she should really have been allowed to stay there permanently). Yet when the much younger Ozala was introduced, Sekondi, having never seen her before, started mating with her immediately....

Now Sekondi is dead, a new male will be obtained which will possibly give Asante a chance to breed. However, due to the new baby in that 'group', he will either be a young animal, or a long wait. My guess is a bit of both...

02-09-2007

grantsmb,

Thanx for the info.

Can you also share with us what year of birth of all gorilla at Twycross are?

02-09-2007

Here are all the current Gorilla DOB at Twycross.

Joe - born February 1962
Bongo - born 3rd January 1965
Sam-Sam - born 1972
Biddy - born 1973
Eva - born 1973
Asante - born 6th June 1985
Ozala - born 19th March 1994
Matadi - born 25th March 2003
Ndoki - born 3rd May 2007

Here are the past Gorilla DOB at Twycross.

Assumbo - born 15th July 1973 (here on loan from Jersey)
Mamfe - born 11th September 1973 - died 23rd September 2006
Sekondi - born 23rd March 1989 - died 26th February 2007
Mambie - born 24th March 1991
Yinka - born 1972 - died January 2007

Hope this helps.

James

02-09-2007

Here's some more background information on the Twycross Gorillas(I won't change the thread as its now Elephants/gorillas!)

Joe and Bongo were the first pair, in the zoo's very early days. Both were very humanised, consequently Joe has never bred with a female. They lived together many years, then later the female Bongo joined the younger animals and Joe has since lived alone- but he can see the others next door.

When Eva and Biddy arrived, originally thought to be a pair, it turned out both were females. So Twycross obtained the two young(handraised) males Mamfe and Assumbo from Jersey to join them. They grew up as a foursome, then later Assumbo was sent away. Mamfe became the breeding male but unfortunately in later years, possibly due to handrearing,the females tended to dominate him and that is when the breeding petered out.

Sekondi was born at Edinburgh but handreared at Twycross. HE was not very healthy in his early years but developed okay as he matured. He has two offspring by the mother-raised Ozala. Ozala and the older non-breeding Asante are half-sisters. Sekondi's father is SamSam, now also at Twycross. It would be good for him to breed with some of the females but he's a rather subdued animal and it seems a bit unlikely. I believe he lives with the older females nowadays, or at least one of them. Eva or Asante would be the two most important animals for them to breed from, as they have no other relatives. Biddy's line, through Ozala, is now more secure.

To be fair to Twycross, while their gorilla breeding has been very sparse, the recent deaths of Mamfe, Sekondi and Yinka(SamSam's Edinburgh partner and a recent arrival) have been their first Gorilla losses in forty odd years of keeping them..

02-09-2007

Why is Joe kept alone? I thought it was because he didn't get on with other gorillas. But Bongo is/was his original companion? Does anyone know why he is not mixed with her?