Indian rhinos in Europe

17-02-2008

Thanks Jelle

17-02-2008

Terra Natura, Benidorm:
0.1 Nisha (born 2001 Muenchen - arrived March 2004)
0.1 Shiva (born 2002 Stuttgart - arrived March 2004)

Recent arrival:
1.0 Nico (born 1986 Plancendael - arrived August 2007). Former proven breeder at Diergaarde Blijdorp, Rotterdam (3 calves + 1 confirmed pregnancy).

Given the timing I think bull Nico will have been put in with the cows in late 2007. The earliest births can thus only be expected during mid to late 2009.

Keep fingers crossed!

17-02-2008

Jelle, my turn now looking into your crystal ball and next year Edinburgh having built their new multi million pound Indian rhino habitat near the top of the hill at the zoo.
Do you think "Babu" or "Fanindra" will still be at the zoo, and where do you think a female will be sourced from?

17-02-2008

Saathi from TP Berlin (born 11/2005) would be a good candidate. There are not that many young females - Shikari from Stuttgart will go to Poland, Batschii to Whipsnade and Rotterdam will keep their female Sofie. The female calf in Whipsnade might be another option for Edinburgh but she is only a few months old yet. I am not sure if the Zoo Munich has a calf at the moment.

17-02-2008

1. I saw the original Stuttgart pair as halfgrowns in their new house on one of my early European trips.. I remembered that Basel Zoo name their rhinos(and some other species e.g Gorillas), first letter of name alphabetically according to the year of birth, so Nanda was born before Puri..)

2. From memory(no book!!) the original San Diego male from Basel was 'Lasai'. Was 'Lasai' the father of Jaffna, or was there a generation in between? 'Lasai' would have been the previous Basel calf to the Stuttgart pair, the one before him was 'Kunlai' which went to Paris I think. (in order of birth at Basel, K, L, N, P.) I can't remember which were Joymothi's and which Moola's though.

3. Into the present. We really need your 'family tree' to help us work out all the present relationships.....

17-02-2008

If Whipsnade(not Chester)are to receive female Batschi, then I think the Whipsnade female calf (asha) may well leave in due course as the indoor accomodation could be a problem. Of course they could still house more rhinos in the old houses but they are pretty poor quality and need upgrading(no indoor pools)

Time flies- asha is over a year old already- when I saw her last September she already looked about a third grown.

18-02-2008

Lets hope they upgrade the older rhino house it could be useful

19-02-2008

The 2 male Indian Rhinos at Edinburgh are to young to breed at the moment I think roughly they are 4 years old, and male Indian Rhino's do not mature until 10 years.

19-02-2008

I'd say mature at 10, but probably fertile and so potential breeders from (say) 6-8 years...

19-02-2008

Bulls are sexually mature at around 7-8 years of age. Potentially, they can THEN sire calves. What is important is that the bull is older than the cow. So theoretically, a 5-6 year old cow may calve from a breeding with an 8-year old bull (that is his age at time of conception).

It is therefore entirely speculative to expect the new bulls imported into the UK will breed in a few years time to 5-6 year old bulls. For that, one requires older bulls. In the UK, there are no current candidates for this position.

Both Chester and Edinburgh Zoos - despite what most forum readers would like to see - are not a breeding option for another 5-6 years (2012+ at the earliest).

When imported female Baatschii will be sexually mature in 4 years. Both Whipsnade females will need a bull from 2009 onwards for their next breeding (weaning of current calves at 20-24 months). So, a mature bull in the UK is ONLY required from end 2008.

19-02-2008

I guess your first statement refers only to first breedings...as if the new Bull for Whipsnade is to be 'Hugo' he is several years younger than the two Nepal females...but he will then be aged 7/8 so I suppose he can be classed as 'almost' mature. (Anyway, it seems to be a matter of what nearly suitable- aged male is available as 'beggars can't be choosers'.)

Jelle- can you tell us exactly which date (day & month) in 2008/9 he will be required?...

19-02-2008

They ought really to extend the old sheds so that they contain indoor pools as well, like the new house.
the new house should be open about now(it may already be?) It can accomodate the three existing females (plus the two calves) so the old sheds would be temporarily empty. So maybe they will upgrade them during the next year or so before this extra female and a new bull arrive.

There definately isn't room for 4 females( that includes the old girl 'Roopa') plus a bull all to live in the new house...

20-02-2008

Hugo comes from a bachelor setting and will have acquired sufficient social skills to hold his own among the older females when he is 7/8-ish (2009/10). Given his genetic background, he is at least less related to the Basel line (so that is a good sign too). Here again the recommendation is to breed out the Basel lineage and bring more wild genes into the captive population.

Second part: getting all cheeky ... now??? I will go and check now when the current proven breeding bulls had first successful matings in the past (ironically the current issue is a lack of mature or sub-adult bulls for breeding).

I really think 1-2 bulls ex SSP and the Indian zoos would do well. In the Indian case we could send over 1-2 cows of the Basel lineage in exchange.

Perhaps Roopa is the candidate for transfer up north? She can then retire with dignity and 1 of the new bulls from the continent can try and relate to what she is ... a mature cow.

20-02-2008

They told me at Whipsnade last year they don't propose to breed her any more so she IS surplus for them. Though I guess she could still breed again with a younger bull as she could still be fertile, despite her age. Maybe they will move her because of their space requirements- its a possibility...

20-02-2008

Yes, I can see now that this is becoming an increasing problem...