Lowland gorillas in Europe

21-06-2008

In Frankfurt, the new great ape house is open for isitors since about one week. All animals incl. the very old individuals like gorilla silverback Matze (50, oldest male gorilla in a zoo worldwide), Charly (50, one of the oldest male orang utans worldwide) and Magrit (55, oldest bonobo in a zoo worldwide) moved about 6 weeks ago without problems. The house is also home for a group of drills, while diana monkeys and colobus monekys will follow in the future. The old house has already been demolished to make space for new outdoor enclosures.

In Artis, female Dafina gave birth to an infant - I`m sure Jelle can tell us more soon! Dafina didn`t raise her young in the past and had a stillbirth last year but I surely hope things will go better this time.

sex change at Bristol Zoo
21-06-2008

At Bristol Zoo, three year old 'Namoki' (Romina x Jock) has now been found to be female not male. Her true sex was only discovered recently during a routine health check. They say that the younger baby, 18 month old Komale, (Salome x Jock) is definately male...

21-06-2008

Presumably the Drills are a seperate exhibit- but is the intention Dianas & Colobus will be for mixed exhibits-say one species with Gorilla and one with Bonobo?

25-06-2008

The plan is to mix all 3 monkey species (yes, including the drills!) with the gorillas, but only in the outdoor enclosure. The gorillas will get the largest outdoor enclosure of all for that (3.000 m²). We`ll see if this works out...

25-06-2008

Are the add-on African tropical rainforest primates - I mean the dianas and colobus - already residents of Frankfurt or transferred from other collections? If long term residents: what will happen to the old Primate House exhibits they are vacating? Any definite plans for this area following on to the Schmidt era masterplan?

The drills are definitely non-locals. What different bloodlines are involved with them?

25-06-2008

Let me guess- Hanover?

25-06-2008

I guess this is the first time either of the Drill/Mandrill species has been trialled with Gorillas. Previously successful(and not so successful) mixings have been with Guenons, Colobus or Mangabeys. I too wonder if it will work okay?

25-06-2008

A female baby would be welcome here as the other two females both have male infants.

25-06-2008

The diana monkeys and the guerezas are already in Frankfurt. Their enclosures in the old monkey house will most likely given to the other monkey species there (baboons, yellow-breasted capuchin monkeys, gibbons) because the space is very limited there.

25-06-2008

Does Frankfurt still have the two moated rocky islands for Monkeys? If so, what's kept on them nowadays?

25-06-2008

Hi Yassa,

I was slightly referring also to the erstwhile Dr. Schmidt masterplan (to my mind a well respected zoo director and one who was dragged through the mud by his Bern Zoo counterpart and to the Frankfurt Municipality who were only too keen to jump on the band-wagon to deflect their responsibility for years of total funding neglect on their part of the local zoos' needs and enlargement project for the out zoo)!

I seem to remember he had suggested and drawn up a plan for a total refurbishment into open air Lesser Primate House?

Can you check for us again ... and what are the plans in the new era?

09-07-2008

It seems that the concept of mixed exhibits for gorillas. Has allot more to do with the personalities of the animals involved rather than saying you can just have colobus monkeys and gorillas together.

Will be very interested to hear how the Drills go. I have not seen or heard of them exhibited with gorillas in the past.

At Howletts l thought they had a fantastic colobus exhibit. So much space and first rate climbing facilities. In the exhibit nesr the front gate. This exhibit was shared with baboons l think. Seemed a shame the 2 days l was there last the colobus seemed to prefer there smaller enclosure although they had acess to the largere area.

Does anybody know more about the fencing that they use in such exhibits?

Stuart

09-07-2008

Is it time to follow Atlanta's experiance.Young males as soon as feasable are transfered to be with other males who are not going to be used for further breeding. As Atlanta has found this produces the best results for longterm bachealor groups.

Rather than the present way of having to constantly re jig bachealor groups.

09-07-2008

Don't forget 'Bachelor groups' of gorilla males are really an artificial product of captivity- non-breeding males in the wild tend to avoid each other and travel about alone, not club together.

As its been found in captivity they'll tolerate each other this has become a recognised way of keeping 'spare' males. I think it largely depends on individual temperament how well and how long they'll live together though. Its true that young males that grew up together don't need to be introduced and will usually live harmoniously(?) together at maturity- but not always. Port Lympne have had problems with fighting and one (maybe two) of their silverback males are permanently separated nowadays. I always get the impression that within their groups, the Port Lympne silverbacks aren't very social with each other.

Paignton(UK) has a group of one adult male and several younger males of different ages. This is more a 'working group' with animals joining and then leaving as they mature to go to breeding groups, and then replaced by younger animals to keep the number at 5/6(there are currently 4). I would regard this as an ideal situation and it seems to work very well, at least with this particular group. Several males have already matured within this group and then left to join breeding groups.

Another thing to remember is the longer a young male can stay in a normal social group, the better socialised he'll be as an adult and a percentage of males that enter batchelor groups are still required for breeding later so this is important too.

09-07-2008

Hi Pertnax, I would imagine given that gorillas high scence of smell. That the number of Silverbacks producing there own odour within maybe a mile of eachother. Could be a reason. I cant think of anywhere else that has so many silverbacks.

Yes definatley if there is a possibility that a male was to be used for future breeding. It is best to have it as socialy adept an animal that can be. I know that many males born now are just not going to be used for breeding. So given that experiance todate suggest that the sooner they are placed together the better the chance for long term stability.

I have seen the work Atlanta is doing with the bachealor groups. The gorillas that were placed together at a young age did seem very settled. Although l am also very aware this is very new territory and there is still allot to be learnt.

I just cant think of another option. As seeing Rigo isolated for 16 years [i think] it just did not seem that a silverback should be alone indefinatley. Although l am aware that the keepers at Melbourne assured me he was okay and they were doing everthing they could.

Towards the end of his isolation his enclosure for several years, was surronded by bamboo for a couple of reasons. One of them was that he was getting very good at releasing his anger i think or maybe for his own entertainment. At throwing his feaces at the public. The other was that unlike many gorillas he was not enjoying the enrichment that the public provide.

The issue of the oversupply of males is very close to my heart. Also of course Rigo is just such a beutifull specime and according to his keepers a real pleasure to work with.

All the best

stuart